Syria Opposition Blasts Kurd Self-Rule as 'Hostile'

[Anthea]

I total agree with everything kak Londoner said. In that region, military strength speaks loudly and just being a whimpy pacifists gets you nowhere. Im proud to see that my people are using all the means at their disposal (political/legal, economical/commercial, geographical/logistical, military/war, etc).

They chopped up our homland like a dead carcass thinking it was dead inorder to feed it to the dogs, but that body still had life in it and it is fighting to get back up.

Regarding President Barzanis visit to Amed- I am not sure what to think yet, still trying to analyze it.

Are you calling Gandhi wimp - I do not think you mean that - it takes a great deal more courage to stand up for your rights knowing you could be killed for those beliefs - yet still not resorting to violence - it takes far more courage to lay down in front of a train knowing it might not stop - than it does to shoot or bomb an unknown person

[Londoner]

Are you calling Gandhi wimp - I do not think you mean that - it takes a great deal more courage to stand up for your rights knowing you could be killed for those beliefs - yet still not resorting to violence - it takes far more courage to lay down in front of a train knowing it might not stop - than it does to shoot or bomb an unknown person

We are not as lucky as was Ghandi. Ghandi was facing British Control of India. This control was business-orientated not ideologically driven. He could reason with British Control and he was fighting British control within a criteria laid down by British control. In other words, his struggle against British control of India was legal. He was not breaking British legal system in India. So he continued his struggle. Finally when India became unprofitable and became a heavy burden on British tax payers, Britain gave up India.

Contrary to that Kurds don't have any legal means to struggle for their freedom in all four parts. Each occupiers of Kurdistan are ideologically driven and ready to die rather than let Kurds free. Occupiers of Kurdistan are similar to French Occupation of Algeria. This occupation was ideologically driven. It took over hundred years for Algerian to get free from French Occupation. France refused to grand freedom to Algeria regardless to the heavy cost. At the end France left Algeria because they realised they would never be able control Algeria.

The same thing now happening in Turkey. Simply they have given up because they realised they would never defeat PKK./

[Anthea]

@ Londoner
For some strange reason I think you might be in London

I personally think that the Kurds should SUE the various governments for the separation of their land

Why I mentioned London is because being in England you might have heard - many of the Caribbean islands have got together to SUE the British government

Kurds could SUE the British Government, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and Turkey for loss, suffering and hardship etc under the Lausanne Treaty

[Shirko]

@ Londoner
For some strange reason I think you might be in London

I personally think that the Kurds should SUE the various governments for the separation of their land

Why I mentioned London is because being in England you might have heard - many of the Caribbean islands have got together to SUE the British government

Kurds could SUE the British Government, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Romania, and Turkey for loss, suffering and hardship etc under the Lausanne Treaty

Good idea Anthea, these governments can all afford it and deserve to pay it!

Btw, how did you put that pic in the comment body? It does not allow me to do it.

[Shirko]

Dirty Turks, how sneaky of them to do this and get away with it. But ultimately it's the responsibility of those other nations who signed and agreed to it, they deserve to pay and compensate for this injustice.

http://m.zimbio.com/Mustafa+Kemal+Atatu ... sanne+1923

Kurdistan Denied! The Treaty of Lausanne, 1923.
By Hevallo - Feb-8-10 6:55pm
From: hevallo.blogspot.com

To understand the nature of any state one must understand how it was formed or how it came into being. In my opinion the story of the Kurdish parliamentarian, Hasan Hayri, in relaton to the establisment of modern Turkey explains more about the nature of this state than anything else.

Hasan Hayri.

Hasan Hayri was from Dersim, and when the Turkish delegation was in Lausanne in 1923, the delegates from other countries said,

"There is a Kurdish population in Kurdistan, in the east of Turkey. If we sign the agreement, what will happen to them?"

And Ismet Pasha, (Ismet Inonu) the chief of the Turkish delegation, said,

"The Turkish government of Turkey is not only the government of Turkey. It is a Turkish and Kurdish government. And the Kurdish and Turkish people have decided to live together, so it is no problem".

But he had to prove that this was the case. He told Kemal Pasha (Mustafa Kemal 'Ataturk') to do something in Ankara to show that the Kurdish people were with the Turkish people.


Kemal Pasha took this man, Hasan Hayri, and told him that the next day he must wear Kurdish national clothes and come with him to parliament to show everybody and show the journalists from other countries that the government of Turkey accepted the Kurdish peoples' existence and their traditions and their clothes and culture.

So the next day, Hasan Hayri arrived in Kurdish clothes and he spoke in the parliament about about how the Kurdish and Turkish people had decided to live together, and how the Kurdish people didn't want to secede. And then Pasha asked him,

"Please write a telegram and send it to Lausanne with the same thoughts you expressed in the parliament."

So Ismet Pasha showed the telegram to the other delegates from the European nations. And they said okay, and they signed the agreement together. But after a while Hasan Hayri was arrested and sent to a special court in Turkey called the Independence Court.

There were no jurists, just members of parliament and members of Kemal Pahsa's party. And they said,

"You are a Kurdish nationalist. You want to separate Turkey and build an independent Kurdish republic."

He said, "No, no! You know who I am. I am Hasan Hayri. I talked in the parliament. I sent a telgram to Lausanne, so how can you say to me, "You are a Kurdish separatist?"

They replied, "We know that one day you wore national Kurdish clothes and in these clothes you went to the Turkish parliament, so you are a Kurdish separatist."

He was condemned to death. And when they took him to the gallows and asked him for his last words, he said,

"I want my grave to be in a place where the Kurds can walk by and spit on me because of my betrayal of them.

Taken from Kurdistan In The Shadow of History

[Anthea]

Dirty Turks, how sneaky of them to do this and get away with it. But ultimately it's the responsibility of those other nations who signed and agreed to it, they deserve to pay and compensate for this injustice.

http://m.zimbio.com/Mustafa+Kemal+Atatu ... sanne+1923

Kurdistan Denied! The Treaty of Lausanne, 1923.
By Hevallo - Feb-8-10 6:55pm
From: hevallo.blogspot.com

To understand the nature of any state one must understand how it was formed or how it came into being. In my opinion the story of the Kurdish parliamentarian, Hasan Hayri, in relaton to the establisment of modern Turkey explains more about the nature of this state than anything else.

Hasan Hayri.

Hasan Hayri was from Dersim, and when the Turkish delegation was in Lausanne in 1923, the delegates from other countries said,

"There is a Kurdish population in Kurdistan, in the east of Turkey. If we sign the agreement, what will happen to them?"

And Ismet Pasha, (Ismet Inonu) the chief of the Turkish delegation, said,

"The Turkish government of Turkey is not only the government of Turkey. It is a Turkish and Kurdish government. And the Kurdish and Turkish people have decided to live together, so it is no problem".

But he had to prove that this was the case. He told Kemal Pasha (Mustafa Kemal 'Ataturk') to do something in Ankara to show that the Kurdish people were with the Turkish people.


Kemal Pasha took this man, Hasan Hayri, and told him that the next day he must wear Kurdish national clothes and come with him to parliament to show everybody and show the journalists from other countries that the government of Turkey accepted the Kurdish peoples' existence and their traditions and their clothes and culture.

So the next day, Hasan Hayri arrived in Kurdish clothes and he spoke in the parliament about about how the Kurdish and Turkish people had decided to live together, and how the Kurdish people didn't want to secede. And then Pasha asked him,

"Please write a telegram and send it to Lausanne with the same thoughts you expressed in the parliament."

So Ismet Pasha showed the telegram to the other delegates from the European nations. And they said okay, and they signed the agreement together. But after a while Hasan Hayri was arrested and sent to a special court in Turkey called the Independence Court.

There were no jurists, just members of parliament and members of Kemal Pahsa's party. And they said,

"You are a Kurdish nationalist. You want to separate Turkey and build an independent Kurdish republic."

He said, "No, no! You know who I am. I am Hasan Hayri. I talked in the parliament. I sent a telgram to Lausanne, so how can you say to me, "You are a Kurdish separatist?"

They replied, "We know that one day you wore national Kurdish clothes and in these clothes you went to the Turkish parliament, so you are a Kurdish separatist."

He was condemned to death. And when they took him to the gallows and asked him for his last words, he said,

"I want my grave to be in a place where the Kurds can walk by and spit on me because of my betrayal of them.

Taken from Kurdistan In The Shadow of History

HZKurd Thank you very much for this - I had never heard of Hasan Hayri but he seems to have been used in almost the same way Ocalan is being used - not surprising that Dersim was at the centre of the original uprisings

[Anthea]

Section III of the Treaty of Sèvres, entitled “Kurdistan,” composed of three articles spelling out the details. Article 62 stipulates that:

“A Commission sitting at Constantinople and composed of three members appointed by the British, French and Italian Governments respectively shall draft within six months from the coming into force of the present Treaty a scheme of local autonomy for the predominantly Kurdish areas lying east of the Euphrates, south of the southern boundary of Armenia as it may be hereafter determined, and north of the frontier of Turkey with Syria and Mesopotamia, as defined in Article 27, II (2) and (3). If unanimity cannot be secured on any question, it will be referred by the members of the Commission to their respective Governments…” (1924).

Moreover, the Treaty goes beyond a mere autonomy as stipulated in Article 64, as following:

“If within one year from the coming into force of the present Treaty the Kurdish peoples within the areas defined in Article 62 shall address themselves to the Council of the League of Nations in such a manner as to show that a majority of the population of these areas desires independence from Turkey, and if the Council then considers that these peoples are capable of such independence and recommends that it should be granted to them, Turkey hereby agrees to execute such a recommendation, and to renounce all rights and title over these areas.

If and when such renunciation takes place, no objection will be raised by the Principal Allied Powers to the voluntary adhesion to such an independent Kurdish State of the Kurds inhabiting that part of Kurdistan which has hitherto been included in the Mosul Vilayet” (1924).

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc061110SK.html

[Shirko]

I wonder if anyone tried to protest this at the League of Nations within that one first year.

Section III of the Treaty of Sèvres, entitled “Kurdistan,” composed of three articles spelling out the details. Article 62 stipulates that:

“A Commission sitting at Constantinople and composed of three members appointed by the British, French and Italian Governments respectively shall draft within six months from the coming into force of the present Treaty a scheme of local autonomy for the predominantly Kurdish areas lying east of the Euphrates, south of the southern boundary of Armenia as it may be hereafter determined, and north of the frontier of Turkey with Syria and Mesopotamia, as defined in Article 27, II (2) and (3). If unanimity cannot be secured on any question, it will be referred by the members of the Commission to their respective Governments…” (1924).

Moreover, the Treaty goes beyond a mere autonomy as stipulated in Article 64, as following:

“If within one year from the coming into force of the present Treaty the Kurdish peoples within the areas defined in Article 62 shall address themselves to the Council of the League of Nations in such a manner as to show that a majority of the population of these areas desires independence from Turkey, and if the Council then considers that these peoples are capable of such independence and recommends that it should be granted to them, Turkey hereby agrees to execute such a recommendation, and to renounce all rights and title over these areas.

If and when such renunciation takes place, no objection will be raised by the Principal Allied Powers to the voluntary adhesion to such an independent Kurdish State of the Kurds inhabiting that part of Kurdistan which has hitherto been included in the Mosul Vilayet” (1924).

http://www.kurdishaspect.com/doc061110SK.html

[Londoner]

Many thanks Kak HZKurdi. This is another very sad historical mistake by Kurds.

[Shirko]

Many thanks Kak HZKurdi. This is another very sad historical mistake by Kurds.

It's my pleasure heval, and I was hoping that someone knows about this story. Because I find it hard to believe they the league of nations were so gullible and incompetent at that time, which wasn't that long ago. And these were advanced nations that had intelligence sevices, they must of known. I am sure that they knew it was a scam but they just turned a blind eye.

[Anthea]

Click to enlarge:

[Londoner]

Many thanks Kak HZKurdi. This is another very sad historical mistake by Kurds.

It's my pleasure heval, and I was hoping that someone knows about this story. Because I find it hard to believe they the league of nations were so gullible and incompetent at that time, which wasn't that long ago. And these were advanced nations that had intelligence sevices, they must of known. I am sure that they knew it was a scam but they just turned a blind eye.

Dear Heval I think this has something to do with the cold war and Mosul in Iraq. The league of nations mainly made up of Europeans, didn't want Turkey became an alley of Russia. Add to that Turkey agreed not to claim back Mosul when Iraq was a British protectorate as it was called at that time and Britain was an influential member of league of nations.