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The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:42 pm
Author: Anthea
Reuters

The pope’s door is always open to ISIS. Why America’s should be, too.
By Jonathan Powell

Pope Francis strayed into controversy recently when he said that, while he supported military action against Islamic State, he also would not rule out speaking to the group if it would help bring peace to Syria and Iraq. “It is difficult, one could say almost impossible, but the door is always open,” he said. :ymapplause:

Many questioned whether the Pope had taken leave of his senses. But he is not being contradictory, or foolish, in supporting military action now and, at the same time, advocating for a diplomatic end goal for the future.

I have studied the conflicts between governments and armed groups over the last thirty years, and the pattern is always the same. Every time we meet a new terrorist group we say we will never talk to them, and yet pretty much every time we end up doing so. This is especially true if they have genuine political support, as the so called ‘Islamic State’ appear to have.

People say that Islamic State is quite different from previous groups — more bloodthirsty, more irrational and more nihilistic. But that is what we say every time we meet a new group.

When I left the British government in 2008 I said, on the basis of my experience of dealing with the Irish Republican Army for a decade, that we should talk to Hamas, to the Taliban and even to al Qaeda. The Foreign Office predictably dismissed the idea. They said that while it was fine to talk to the IRA and the Palestine Liberation Organization, these new groups were beyond the pale.

In the six years since then, the U.S. and Israeli governments have negotiated a ceasefire with Hamas, the U.S. government has negotiated a prisoner swap with the Taliban and the former head of MI5 has suggested we should be talking to al Qaeda.

If so much can change in just six years, who is to say that we will not be talking to Islamic State at some point too?

People ask what we would negotiate with Islamic State about. Their demand for a universal caliphate is completely unacceptable. But so was the demand of Free Aceh Movement (or GAM) in Indonesia for an independent Aceh, and the demand of the IRA for a united Ireland, made at gunpoint and without regard for the wishes of the majority Northern Ireland’s population.

When we sat down with them, however, it turned out that there were other things they wanted: like a power-sharing government, Equal opportunities and the use of the Irish language.

The same could be true of Islamic State.

The Sunni communities in Iraq and Syria have legitimate grievances about the way they were treated by the sectarian governments of Nouri al-Maliki, and the way they continue to be treated under Bashar al-Assad’s regime. Unless those grievances are properly addressed, there won’t be a lasting peace settlement in either country.

I am not suggesting for a minute that the West should sit down and try to negotiate with Ibrahim al Baghdadi now, even if he were prepared to do so.
That would be ludicrous, as the conditions are not present at the moment for such negotiations to succeed.

But in past conflicts, governments have opened up secret channels to terrorist groups using intelligence services. Those channels have allowed negotiations to take place at a later, more propitious time.

The British government opened a channel to the IRA in 1972 and it was finally used by John Major in 1991-1993 to bring about a ceasefire and peace negotiations.

People underestimate how long it takes to build trust and educate armed groups about what is realistic and what is not. Negotiations themselves are only possible when there is a military stalemate. One could envisage a situation where a secret channel is opened up to Islamic State and, eventually, negotiations take place once they have been adequately checked militarily.

If history is anything to go by, a combination of military pressure and offering a political way out through negotiations is likely to be the only way of getting to a lasting settlement. Keeping the door open, as Pope Francis suggests, is a good idea after all.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... ld-be-too/

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:41 pm
Author: Piling
well, Pius XII told the same about Nazis and it was not a good idea.

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:27 am
Author: Anthea
Piling wrote:well, Pius XII told the same about Nazis and it was not a good idea.


GOOD POINT :ymapplause:

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:44 am
Author: RomaMater
Can the Church Depose an Heretical Pope?

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.p ... tical-pope

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:52 am
Author: RomaMater
Image

The Holy Archangel, Saint Michael the Most Holy loves to blast infidels. :ymhug:

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:54 am
Author: Piling
As it is not a question of dogma, there are no 'heresy'. Deposition can happen if obviously the pope lost his mental faculties.

Though it not happened with JP2 :-? Some cardinals were happy to rule in his name.

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:00 am
Author: RomaMater
Piling wrote:As it is not a question of dogma, there are no 'heresy'. Deposition can happen if obviously the pope lost his mental faculties.

Though it not happened with JP2 :-? Some cardinals were happy to rule in his name.


:)

The faithful Catholics who follow only Christ are not obligated to obey heresy, the false religions, apostasy, etc. sir. The mutterings of the pagans. We are 'politically incorrect.' :ymhug:

We follow and believe in the Crucified One. :ymblushing:

'The Chant of the Templars.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 am
Author: Piling
Precisely the order of Templars was banned and condemned for heresy, and its grand masters burned, in Paris with the blessing of Pope Clement :-D

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:33 pm
Author: Anthea
RomaMater wrote:Image

The Holy Archangel, Saint Michael the Most Holy loves to blast infidels. :ymhug:


Saint Michael looks a bit too bloodthirsty for my liking =))

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:40 pm
Author: Anthea
RomaMater wrote:The faithful Catholics who follow only Christ are not obligated to obey heresy, the false religions, apostasy, etc. sir. The mutterings of the pagans. We are 'politically incorrect.' :ymhug:

We follow and believe in the Crucified One. :ymblushing:

'The Chant of the Templars.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0d4qM7gCH8


There was me thinking Catholics worshipped God the creator - learn something new every day :ymdevil:

Did you know that Catholics still have their - very hushed up and extremely powerful - underground secret society - far more secret and powerful than the Masons :shock:

I believe that they are some form of extension of the supposedly banned Templars :lol:

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:19 pm
Author: Piling
Anthea wrote:
RomaMater wrote:Image

The Holy Archangel, Saint Michael the Most Holy loves to blast infidels. :ymhug:


Saint Michael looks a bit too bloodthirsty for my liking =))


Christ orders to love the ennemies and never hit back even if you are assaulted… Unfortunately, Christians are hurry to forget that.
Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.


:D

So Michael should be in a great trouble.

In any case, because of the papal infallibility, no pope can be heretic since 1870. ;)

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:25 pm
Author: Piling
Did you know that Catholics still have their - very hushed up and extremely powerful - underground secret society - far more secret and powerful than the Masons :shock:


Opus Dei ?

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:05 am
Author: Anthea
Piling wrote:
Did you know that Catholics still have their - very hushed up and extremely powerful - underground secret society - far more secret and powerful than the Masons :shock:


Opus Dei ?


It could be but I am not sure - I thought it was something much more secret and more powerful :-?

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:44 am
Author: Piling
Vatican's bank and finance then :lol:

Re: The Pope’s door is always open to the Islamic State

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:47 am
Author: RomaMater
Saint Michael is my patron saint btw. :-?

In the Christian Tradition Saint Michael is called 'Archangel.' 'Champion of God', 'Prince of the Heavenly Hosts'. Etc.

In the Great War in the Heavens Saint Michael smote 'the dragon,' i.e. Lucifer, Satan, etc.

Image

:D