Roj Bash Kurdistan

when I look at these palestinains i see they have what they want ...and they still blow themself into israelis...

they have their eleceted leader
they have their own national footbal team and plays in World Games.
they have Freedom of speech to bitch about everybody they want.
they have ...this and that,....

i just wanna make sure "do israel let these palestianians to speak arabic and study in arabic?"
I bet Israel DO let them to speak in arabic and study in arabic... because I always see ARabic version of Israeli TVS and Sites and News...
(thet thing that Fucking Mother fucker Turkey doenst give to 25 million kurds in Turkey ...) poor kurds in turkey ...

if Israel had one 1% of the things that Turkey do to the kurds...now all of the palestinians would blow themself and no Israeli was alive...

I don't know exactly the status of Arabic language (not an official one in Israël I guess) but of course they can learn Arabic at school, as a second language at least.

Look - Israel is currently withdrawing from majority Palestinian areas-----> They are LEAVING THEIR HOMES! Those which they have lived in since 1940's... And they are leaving these areas for GOOD... Never to return again... WHY??? Because they want PEACE... A word Tyrkey has no definition for... They are leaving their homes for something called NATIONAL RIGHTS... Which are two words the Turks define as "Turkish rights"...

In Isral the majority is Jewish... Arabs make up a lesser minority and still - do not forget all the others there... Druse, Maronittes, Beduin, Alewit, Hammits... These are other "Arabic" peoples - they don't define themselves as "Palestinian"...

But still - although the conflict is a large scale one and the awarness of the situation is VERY high in the international community - there is still no solution to the problem - but Israel is the ONE state that acts on the principals of DEMOCRACY... Another foreign word for Turkey... Who define the word as "Equal rights for all Turks"... And just what the f**k if I don't call myself a "Turk"? DAMN TURKEY!...

I everyone,

I know I now, I am going to burst your bubble...
But COME ONE!!!

Diyako,
I don't know which part of occupied Kurdistan you are from, and it doesn't really matter at this point, but I am going to assume you are from Iraqi-Occupied-Kurdistan.

How would you feel if each time you wanted to go from Erbil to Sulemanye you would need a "iraqi pass".
How would you feel if your mother had to give birth to you at a check point.
How would you feel if "occupiers" would live in your house (in our case and the case of Kirkuk they are arab iraqi, in the case of the palestiniens, they are jewish israelis).
How would you feel if a wall was built on your ancestors land, and you would need a "pass" to go to your olive trees in our case they may be almond or pistachio trees.
How would you feel if you were living in a foreign country as refugee and not being given "nationality" or "legal papers" (like our kurds in syria, for the palestinian, it's the same thing in lebanon, syria and other arab countries).

Now, are you talking about the Israeli Arabs (who are palestinians)?
If you are talking about them...no they do not live under the conditions stated above...but try to find a job, or an appartement in israel if you are an israeli arab...try to go to a university (the governement will not help you if you do not go to the military service, which is not mendatory for non-jewish israelis...and for some of the hardcore extremist religious ones...)

Remember the apartheid regim or the turkish regim or the syrian, iraqi and iranien regim....the israeli regm is the same...

And yes, Diri they have an elected governement...but I can't believe you meant what you wrote about them acting on the principle of democracy...if it is, then I don't want that type of democracy...I found you much more nuanced when writting on the below posting and talking about Iran and Turkey's democracy...:

BUSH: DEAR TURKEY is MODEL OF DEMOCRASY


It is sad to see that kurds and palestinians have a parallele history of occupation...and yet we can't work together because the only country in the middle-east that would "support" us is Israel, and the countries that would "support" them are turkey-syria-iran-iraq...(notice that I put the word support entrecote "")...Ironic no?

Dd...

And yes, Diri they have an elected governement...but I can't believe you meant what you wrote about them acting on the principle of democracy...if it is, then I don't want that type of democracy...I found you much more nuanced when writting on the below posting and talking about Iran and Turkey's democracy...:

Dear Dilshad... My brother... We are talking of the fundamental values... I was definetly not aiming at those which you were talking of - such as:

How would you feel if each time you wanted to go from Erbil to Sulemanye you would need a "iraqi pass".
How would you feel if your mother had to give birth to you at a check point.
How would you feel if "occupiers" would live in your house (in our case and the case of Kirkuk they are arab iraqi, in the case of the palestiniens, they are jewish israelis).
How would you feel if a wall was built on your ancestors land, and you would need a "pass" to go to your olive trees in our case they may be almond or pistachio trees.
How would you feel if you were living in a foreign country as refugee and not being given "nationality" or "legal papers" (like our kurds in syria, for the palestinian, it's the same thing in lebanon, syria and other arab countries).

These are awfull things - and inhumane... But they have no direct connection to the definition of "democracy"... Demcray as it is means "Demos" = "people" and "Cracy" = "rule"... So I was talking about the definition which is of "Freedom" - like "freedom of speech" - "freedom of religion"...

I think what uyou are talking about is the Convention for Human rights... Just to give an example:

"Every woman has the right to give birth in a safe enviroment" (and not on the "border" check point)...

When I say that Israel acts on the principals of Democracy - those are - People rule the land, they choose their government and have their basic rights... These rights are enveloped in the term democracy... But the Convention for Human rights is a much more detailed paper on the spesific rights of each human being... While Democracy is about the people and groups of the people as a whole...

If you see what I mean...


And I do agree with what yo uare saying - that the Israely side has been very brutal... And still is at times... But we must not support any of them... The only support we must give both of them is this "We support the right of every nation and ethnic people to have a national state"... This is a democratic right - which Israel has not denied the Palestinians - they are wroking with them to find a suitable solution...

I am not overly interested in the conflict - although I know much of it and read much of it... But still it angers me to this day that they have not agreed upon simpler things...

Greets...

Hey Diri,

I agree, with you...you're right, if we take the definition of democracy literally, then Israel, (Turkey and Iran) are democracies; since their governements are elected by the people...what differ between them are the elections rules...
what does it tells you about a-the democratic system, b-the people electing them?

It would make an interesting topic...do you support the rules of democracy as we know them today (meaning do you support a system where the majority rules).

As for the israelis and the palestinians not being able to get to a compromise...well, I can't blame the palestinians...if they had agreed to the "camp david" agreement, they would have had a "swiss cheeze state".

It's easy, the agreement needs to be juste! In the same way that we are asking that Kurds NEED to have the right of return to Kirkuk and other area where arabization happened, they need to have their right to return...

Do you remember what Talabani or Barzani said: Kirkuk is our Jerusalem
THat is one the pont on which the Israelis and the Palestinians will have hard time agreeing upon...let's hope, the iraqi arabs and kurds will not do the same thing with Kirkuk...

D...

1- if they dont blow themself in the Israeli Civils, there would be no check points -currectly in iraqi kurdistan we are adding more check points everyday because terrorist are blowing themself up in to civils...

2- your sympotty for palestinians is something that I am tlaking about...

let me tell you something, these palestinians are just 2-3 millions , but JUST IRAN - JUST IRAN- I repear JUST IRAN has made 30 TV and Radio for these 2-3 palestinian Arabs.

ALL OF the arabic coutnies support them -even if 1 DINAR but THEY DO support them...-

SOME OF THE EU countries like Britian support them...becuase they hate jews...and they dont like jews to have more power in the region.

if you loook the world is showing the palestinian's problem so so so much Big...but brother...they are jsut 2-3 million arabs...and they hate kurds...
they dont like kurds to be seprate from their "their arabic land"

I dont feel any Special Pitty for palestinans....
look at darfur...everyday 50 children dies in hunger....but nobody pays attention...nobody gives a shit.....but for dear palestiane WHO HAS BEEN GIVE PROMISE to have a STATE . and they WILL have a state SOOOOON.
and they are getting more day by day....(they just reived 3 billion dolor help last WEEK !) ...but they are still pooorest ppl of the world HAA?

but their propagenda still Works...even on kurds like you Dilsad !
thats normal more than 300 tV channel from iran and arab world and EU , support these 2 million ppl .

I dont like tthe idea of making wall between israel and palestine --so I agree in this part with you- but it isnt such a big genocide is it ?

and mind that jews are one of the nations in the world who has no support....they are so lonly...every nation and eevery culture calls them EVIL-MONSTER- CURSED.... I really feel pitty for jews... but ...look they saved themself by their Sciencen and their BRAIN.
isralisi didnt steal palestine's land by force...they did it by MONEY...that is so "peacefull way" ...

remember just hitler killed 4-6 million jews..
I am sorry for those who been Fooled by propagenda and see these palestianians as "poor" , belive me I see some kurd ppl even work for them more than for kurdistan..


it is strange world dear !

and mind that , at the time that jews went to that land...nobody said anythig...it was a USELESS FREE LAND...

but jews made a beauty country there for themself....

(in islam , nowhere it been said , humans can not live in a FREE LAND....those land was FREE and nobody used it...)
and then after jews made a heavon in that useless lands....
arabs remembered "OH IT WAS OUR LAND....that THEY BOUGHT FROM US...
let go and kill these cursed jews ...and take our land back ?"

haa? fucking opportuntists ...i hate that behaviour.....why they didnt remember to take their land back at first?

Well... Although I am pretty much neutral in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict - Although IF I was gonna support anyone OPENLY it would be Israel... Don't see why? Well - there is ONE reason which can not be denied - the Israeli president openly proclaimed that Kurds and Jews have a LOOOOONG history together in the 1960-70s and that was VERY paramount thing back then... He supported Mustafa Barzani and gave him light arms, training and support...

But Dyaoko - just so we get the facts straight... There are ALMOST 5 million "Palestinians" - although I could SWEAR that many Arabs "converted" into Palistinian nationals...

Guys Guys guys,..
let's not kid ourselves...Israel helped the kurds ONLY becasue of their own interests...it has NOTHING to do with the fact that we "share" a "common" long history...really we don't share it at all.

Jews in the middle east lived as the shias or the christians in the middle east live.
It is only recent that they started to "kick them out"...note I put the kick them out in entrecote "".
There is in fact historical proofs that the young israel state planted bombs in Iraq in order to create and encourage, force the iraqis, kurdish jews to go live in israel...that's why we have about 100000 kurds living around jerusalem.

The jews were more persecuted in europe...remember nazi germany? in france, the main city would ring the bells at 7pm so that the jews and gipsies would live the inner city and have to go beyond the gates...

Remember how the jews and the eastern christian churches actually supported the muslim empire during the crusades? Becasue the crusaders would come and kill anyone that did not look like them...

Anyways, that was just to say that we do have quite a different history.

Now, if they really wanted to help us, why do they come and "stole" our kurdish water (the turkish state is saling water from kurdistan to the sate of israel). Why do they have the best contacts with turkey?

Now to answer some of the things that Dyako said...talk about propaganda...
"They bloomed the desert" I mean come on! do you really think that this is true? Their were people living there, and no they didn't have the industrial means to mass produce, but they lived there for centuries...
They did everything from nothing? Give me a break, they got so much help from the european and teh US. I mean when you compare them to the japanese, they have not done anything spectacular really? Have they? I mean Japan after being reduced to the "stone age" came back as one of the strongest industrial country in the world...

Now let's remember that none of the technology was "home-grown" in the early decades, we are talking about european and american jews going back to the palestine and bringing with them money and technical know-how...

Let's remember that the US gives israel about 3.5billion dollars every year...while they give 3billion dollar TOTAl to the entire african continent..

Let's emember their nuclear industry was supported by the french...and tolerated by the US...

As for buying Land...well, there is a difference between buying land, and occupying land...the truth is that Israel is still today an occupying force.

Such as Turkey, Syria, Iran, Iraq...

No Diri, instead of saying that you would be on Israel side, why don't you say that you would be on the justice side?...

We are on a slippery slope here...if we start supporting occupiers? Aren't we?

Serkeftin...
Dd...

arabic/hebrew both official language of israel.
all arabs called themselves Jordanians or Syrians before 1967. Arafat pledged alligience to jordan. after 67, started saying they were palestinian.
10 arab seats in parliament.
no prohibition of language, worship or clothing for anyone.
all sects have their own religious "courts" if they choose, so druze can go to court under their law, arab under their law, or if they want to go to court under israeli law they can too.
can go to any college based only on merit.
arafat stole all the money, built nothing!!!
Isreal built hospitals and all universities in the territories.
israel built economic cooperation zones in gaza and west bank, but the palestinians used the factories to make bombs, so after 2nd intafada, the israelis shut down the factories.

I didn't know that Arabic was an official language in Israël. Very interesting.

And concerning the life of Arabs in Israël, it is ironic to think that no other Arab citizens lives so free in an ARAB country. The conditions of Arab Israelians has nothing to do with Palestians in occupied territories.

arabic/hebrew both official language of israel.

Good!!! That's better than Turkey, Iran, Syria...

all arabs called themselves Jordanians or Syrians before 1967. Arafat pledged alligience to jordan. after 67, started saying they were palestinian.

Not sure where you got this from...

10 arab seats in parliament.

That's great. There have been kurds in the turkish parliament too...still kurds do not have "any right" in turkish-occupied-kurdistan.

no prohibition of language, worship or clothing for anyone.
all sects have their own religious "courts" if they choose, so druze can go to court under their law, arab under their law, or if they want to go to court under israeli law they can too.

The same day a settler was judged for bashing the head of a 10-11year old boy with his gun and killing him in Israel, a 17-year old palestinian girl was judged for trying to stab an israeli.
Guess who went to jail and who didn't...in a country where the law is the same for everyone, the settler that killed the boy would have gone to jail...
Well in Israel, the 17-year old palestinian girl went to jail while the murderer was released... Nice Court system, no?

can go to any college based only on merit.

What about financial aid to student? I have heard that if you don't go to the army, then you don't get financial aid? Is that right?

arafat stole all the money, built nothing!!!

You are right,...who decided to choose him as a palestinian "leader" ?
A LOT of palestinian did not like him...he was a carismatic leader in the 70-80's but "sold out" in the 90's and became a dictator later...

Isreal built hospitals and all universities in the territories.

Yeah, so they don't come into israeli hospitals...also, under international law, Israel as an occupying power has to provide for the palestinians in the occupied territories...so they are not making anyone a favor...

israel built economic cooperation zones in gaza and west bank, but the palestinians used the factories to make bombs, so after 2nd intafada, the israelis shut down the factories.

Nice, so they can get cheap labor and things made in the occupied territories and then label the produces "made in Israel"...
As for using infrastructure to make weapons...under international law, you can use force to defend yourself.

D...

Good to see you back Emmunah!

sorry...not back really, went to more doctors and I tore the rotator cuff muscles.

only thing i say about this is go there and see, then go see what life is like in surrounding countries...better for arabs to live in israel..all the friends i have rather be there then live under another dictator. no place is perfect...but some places much better.

you get financial aid only in us if you have very high grades...you only get financial aid in israel cause everyone has to join military....this is fine....many, many, arabs join the military.

look at history of plo's pledges to jordon that the plo would never try to make new country other than jordan. i can't do it now.

about cheap labor....tell me...what happens if you don't learn skills? you want to learn, you learn...if not...you are going to be cheap labor everywhere. in us, all people who don't learn are labor...happens everywhere...but now what....now, send suicide bombs, then no more jobs..even cheap labor jobs...would you hire some one you thought was going to blow up your business?
i just like it if everyone goes there and see cause the truth is not what the people on the internet say it is.