Israeli Kurds want representation in Pan-Kurdish conference

[Piling]

August 20, 2013

JERUSALEM, Israel,— As Kurds push towards national unity, in the hope of eventually securing independence, Israel's sizable Kurdish community wants a seat too.

September 15th marks the start of a 3-day conference in Iraqi Kurdistan, which many of the roughly 30 million Kurds worldwide hope will forge a united Kurdish National Congress.

The Kurds are the largest indigenous Middle Eastern nation without a state. Their homeland, Kurdistan, is currently occupied by Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq. However, recent years have seen progress in the Kurdish struggle for self-determination: Kurds in Iraq enjoy autonomy under the Kurdish Regional Government (KRG), Kurds in Syria have secured a degree of autonomy in Syria, and Kurds in Turkish-occupied Kurdistan are currently engaged in negotiations for greater rights.

The run up to the conference has been marred by much internal political strife, not least between the KRG and the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK), along with its various affiliates. A point of particular contention is over who should control western Kurdistan (in north-eastern Syria).

Nevertheless, the initiative has inspired Kurds throughout the world, who have been fighting, campaigning and hoping for an independent state of their own for at least a century.

At a meeting back in July, it was decided (also amid some controversy) that the congress would be made up of 21 members: six members from Kurdish parties in Turkey, five from the Autonomous Kurdistan Region of Iraq,www.ekurd.net four from Syrian Kurdistan (Rojova), five from Iranian-occupied Kurdistan and one member to represent the Kurdish communities in Europe, where the majority of the Kurdish diaspora is located.

Now it seems, some of the members of the Jewish-Kurdish community in Israel would also like a seat at the table.

According to the Bas Kurdish news site a group of Kurdish Jews posted a message on Facebook requesting representation:

"When we look at the [proposed] Kurdish National Congress, we don't see any Jewish Kurds to represent Jewish Kurds, even though Jewish Kurds, like all other Kurds, are part of Kurdish heritage, history and culture."

The group further noted that there are "over 500 thousands Jewish Kurds" in Israel who still maintain their traditions and feel an affinity to the Kurdish people.

Most Kurds are Sunni Muslims, and the community is known for its moderate and tolerant brand of Islam. But a large Jewish population existed in Kurdistan for many centuries, eventually making aliyah (emigrating to Israel) during the 20th century.

Copyright ©, respective author or news agency, israelnationalnews.com

Why not ?

[kardox]

yes why not. They should have something to say. Kurds did not kick them out, most of them forced to leave, by the Arab goverment after the creation of Israel.

[Shirko]

This is a good idea. Ifbthey get a seat, the Kurds living in Lebanon, Jordan and the Palestinian territories should also get a seat.

And that 500 thousand figure of Jewish Kurds in Israel is much higher than the 150 estimate floating around. If that us true, then they should get a seat

[Feyli_kord]

Are they israelis or kurds? That's the question. I can't even visit israel, because they'd detain me for my muslim background. But they should have seats at kurdish congress? If jewish kurds want to be kurds, they can move back to kurdistan. Otherwise, they can forget about seats. Will kurdish muslims get seats in israel? we all know the answer to that question.

This is a good idea. Ifbthey get a seat, the Kurds living in Lebanon, Jordan and the Palestinian territories should also get a seat.

And that 500 thousand figure of Jewish Kurds in Israel is much higher than the 150 estimate floating around. If that us true, then they should get a seat

Why should they? They hate muslims, as much as they hate arabs.

[Piling]

Where did you hear that Jewish Kurds hate their Muslim compatriots ? At the contrary, many of them did support S. Kurds during Bazarni's revolt.

If jewish kurds want to be kurds, they can move back to kurdistan.

They did not chose to leave Kurdistan, they have been expelled by Muslims, as Iraqi Jews. They did not chose to become Israelis but now they are. That's a fact. How many Kurds are living out of Kurdistan ? How many did come back ? Are they still Kurds ? If we follow that point of view, all the Kurds in this forum are not Kurds, and at first yourself.

The right to visit Israel (or not) has nothing to do with the religion : Some Muslim countries has no diplomatic relations with Israel, and did not recognize it, so I guess that you can not enter with an Iranian or Iraqi passport. But some countries like Jordan or Egypt or Bahrein accept Israeli tourists, and the contrary is true, even if an Arab foreigner is probably seriously controlled because of terrorism : you can see many burqa and niqab in Tel Aviv

They hate muslims, as much as they hate arabs.

How many Jews are Arabs ? How many Palestinians are Christians ? You think like a European : Arab=Muslims

Will kurdish muslims get seats in israel?

Why not ? There are many Israeli Arab Muslims, and also Baha'i (persecuted by Muslims), Christian Arabs (or new russian migrants). If a Kurdish State will born, it has relations with Israel and then migrants from both sides.

[Feyli_kord]

Where did you hear that Jewish Kurds hate their Muslim compatriots ? At the contrary, many of them did support S. Kurds during Bazarni's revolt.

I hear jews use islam and terrorism interchangably, many jews from israel and west on the internet, say that islam is an evil religion that should be destroyed. They only mention kurds, when they want to clear their name from crimes committed against palestinians. They only support kurds against arabs, because they hate arabs more than they hate islam and muslims.

They did not chose to leave Kurdistan, they have been expelled by Muslims, as Iraqi Jews. They did not chose to become Israelis but now they are. That's a fact. How many Kurds are living out of Kurdistan ? How many did come back ? Are they still Kurds ? If we follow that point of view, all the Kurds in this forum are not Kurds, and at first yourself.

If they want to be kurds, they can return to kurdistan, no one is forcing them to stay away from kurdistan. The iraq goverment even tried to compensate iraqi jews, even though israelis celebrated the iran-iraq war, and say that it's good when muslim people kill each other.

Unlike jewish kurds, I don't hold alleigance to the country i live in. I don't say that i'm european and kurdish at the same time. I only say that i'm kurdish and west-asian. I reject any other claim to my identity. Any other claim is deluded.

The right to visit Israel (or not) has nothing to do with the religion : Some Muslim countries has no diplomatic relations with Israel, and did not recognize it, so I guess that you can not enter with an Iranian or Iraqi passport. But some countries like Jordan or Egypt or Bahrein accept Israeli tourists, and the contrary is true, even if an Arab foreigner is probably seriously controlled because of terrorism : you can see many burqa and niqab in Tel Aviv

Is that why they detain anyone with a muslim name?

How many Jews are Arabs ? How many Palestinians are Christians ? You think like a European : Arab=Muslims

No, that is a defintion used by europeans and israelis, not by me. And yes, you should just see what israelis and pro-israel jews write everywhere. They not only hate people of arab ethnicity, they hate muslims in general aswell, which includes berbers, kurds, turks, azeris, iranians, pakistanis and 100s of others.

Why not ? There are many Israeli Arab Muslims, and also Baha'i (persecuted by Muslims), Christian Arabs (or new russian migrants). If a Kurdish State will born, it has relations with Israel and then migrants from both sides.

It won't happen. Kurdish congress seats should be reserved for people who hold alleigance to kurdish nationhood and kurdish-statehood. Not two nations and two states.

[Piling]

For people who would like to read about the history of Jewish Kurds, there are good books :

The first focused more on Jews from Zakho, which was called the Jerusalem of Kurdistan :


http://northerniraq.info/blog/?p=389



This one is easier to read : a book of memories :

http://northerniraq.info/blog/?p=315




and this one is an excellent study about the political process which led to the leaving of Jews from Kurdistan :



I don't remember which website has stolen us

http://northerniraq.info/blog/?p=243

[Piling]

Kurdish congress seats should be reserved for people who hold alleigance to kurdish nationhood and kurdish-statehood. Not two nations and two states.

Then no PKK and no PYD and no PJAK

[Feyli_kord]

Kurdish congress seats should be reserved for people who hold alleigance to kurdish nationhood and kurdish-statehood. Not two nations and two states.

Then no PKK and no PYD and no PJAK

PKK and PYD and PJAK are not against unified kurdistan. They just disagree on who should be its leaders.

[Piling]

PKK and PYD and PJAK are not against unified kurdistan. They just disagree on who should be its leaders.

No, they are against a Kurdish State and the concept of National Statehood, and Öcalan praises a 'unified Turkish State' for Northern Kurds, without mention of ethnicity.

[Feyli_kord]

PKK and PYD and PJAK are not against unified kurdistan. They just disagree on who should be its leaders.

No, they are against a Kurdish State and the concept of National Statehood, and Öcalan praises a 'unified Turkish State' for Northern Kurds, without mention of ethnicity.

So did KRG. When talabani was the Iraqi president, in a press conference, he said that he's against kurdish seperatism, and he publically rejected kurdish state. I can understand that this is a strategy, it's both dishonest and spineless. No kurdish parties or leaders currently support nationhood. So your counter-argument is null. I also never endorsed barazani or talabani. I said in my opinion that only people with interest in kurdish nationhood and state should ideally be on that conference. Since no kurdish leaders support that in the current moment, and since they organized and contol this conference, it's sort of hard to put such criticism up. Either way, I repeat my point. Either you're israeli or kurdish. Simple as that. You can't be both. Just like i can't be european and kurdish at the same time. Not only is the former impossible(I can't suddenly change my Genome to a european one) it also conflicts with being kurdish. For kurdish jews it's a matter of cultural and nation loyality. Culturally and identity wise, they're tied with israel, rather than to kurds or kurdistan.

[Piling]

Genome is nuts. Your genome comes from Africa, as 7 billions of humans on earth. All 'ethnicity' are only mental self identity, nothing genetic.

[Feyli_kord]

Genome is nuts. Your genome comes from Africa, as 7 billions of humans on earth. All 'ethnicity' are only mental self identity, nothing genetic.

Yes, but then we evolved profiles over time. Through genetic selection, isolation, bottle-neck effect, founder effect. Humans today descend from no more than 10-12 prehistoric groups that survived. Every human ethnic group has a unique signature which isolates them from other groups or shows relatedness. They have mutations and patterns of mutations that are unique to them. This goes even on a village level. This what essentially what make up tribes. What distinguishes the human mosaic of peoples and cultures. I can show you some genetic results of kurds, show you their ancestral groups and compare them to other populations(like french) if you like, and if you don't believe me. How much these differences affect and how far they go, I don't know entirely, research on that is lacking. There is some preliminary research which gives hints.

Even on the the most basic and rudimentary level, from everyday life, people differentate based on appearance and skin color. This is one of the causes for why immigration is largely a failure in europe, i think. In your own country, there are many north-africans and sub-saharans africans, many who lived for generations in france, people who came in the 50s and 60s. They're not seen as french by ethnic french and they don't see themselves as french. I know it sounds crazy, but that is the truth.

The majority of non-europeans, who reside in europe, regardless of them being born there or having lived there for a long time, don't see themselves as europeans, and europeans don't see them as europeans. But as immigrants or non-european communities(Africans, south-asians, kurds, arabs, turks, muslims, east-asians, etc). I know this isn't politically correct to say, but it's the truth.

Regardless if we share recent common ancestry( many groups do actually, most groups within a geographic area are interrelated) or descend same maternal and paternal ancestors. Humans define themselves as tribes.

[Anthea]

Kurdish congress seats should be reserved for people who hold alleigance to kurdish nationhood and kurdish-statehood. Not two nations and two states.

Then no PKK and no PYD and no PJAK

These groups have no allegiances to Kurdish identity or an independent Kurdistan - especially on Turkish soil where they now believe in remaining under Turkish suppression and forming a closer bond with their Turkish brothers

[Piling]

In your own country, there are many north-africans and sub-saharans africans, many who lived for generations in france, people who came in the 50s and 60s. They're not seen as french by ethnic french and they don't see themselves as french. I know it sounds crazy, but that is the truth.

French is not an ethnic group. So a genetic French doe snot exist. And of course most of them see themselves as French, because French is a citizenship, so they are equal according to law, because of jus soli, not birthgright.. They are not the first migrants : we have Italian, Polish, Portuguese, Spanish, etc. As America, as Australia, France is a land which attracted migrants and is still doing it.

You talk about French realities but you don't know this country and for example the fact that it is one of the UE country where there are the most numerous 'mixed marriages' (probably because we are not very religious).

Concerning Jewish Kurds their genome is the same as yours. So because they are Israeli citizens, they are not Kurds and and they have to chose ? But what about other Kurds who got American, Australian or European nationalities ? Are they still Kurds, or not ?