Kurds in Sweden and Norway

[lavin]

ok, lets assume that the divorce rate in western countries is 62%, how about eastern countries like middle eastern counties? They do not even know what is rate or statistical approach or voting or human rights!!!

you think that if a woman doesnt have any right to get out marriage easily in Kurdish-islamic family shows that we have a very great and strong family? if we had a very strong culture and family we could see more development in our society , so please do not intermix the human rights for women with the trading of women in the name of tradition or kurdsh-culture.

I dont know which part of Kurdistan are you living in but in Rojhelati Kurdistan we hate and against people who think they have the right to make decisions for women like : how they should dress, how they should behave, where they should go, they should go to university just if their MALE owner(!!) allow them.... in these societies men can do every thing, have many wives, but if their daughters make friendship with a boy they are going to kill them!! women have their on right to do what ever they think is good for them.

and please do not fool yourself by saying that our families are better in the case of getting divorce, most of the Kurdish families are divorced emotionally but for the sake of these stupid and cruel rules they cannot make good decision and make an end to their bad marriage.

its good that I can hear what kurdish traditions are in the world!!!!! killing a woman for having sex!!! we have a long way to have country, first we should have educate our people more and more to learn that human being are not living in the cave any more and something is exist which we call it "human right" .

I cannot understand how some kurds ask for freedom and democracy when yet they cannot understand the meaning of it.

[talsor]

My dear Lavin

I'm not debating the crulty and unfairness of the Islamic laws when it comes to women . The fact is , they are very affective and very clear when it comes to rulls , resposibilties and building a society that is a family oreiented .While in westren democracy , there are no Rulls , there are no clear lines , there is nothing that frames the institution of marriage , thus Marriage does not mean much , and getting devorced is Ok even if it is for a real stupid thing .

You keep mentioning Rojhelati Kurdistan in every post , like it is Paris of Kurdistan . I do not think Sena is any differant than duhok or Sulymania or qamishly when it comes to the femel's rull in the family . I undrstand that each family is differant , but as a society the Majority are the same and follow the same rulls .

Real divorce and emotional divorce is a philosophical subject , I will leave it for another post .

Please Lavin do not misuderstand me , I'm not defending Islam here , I'm discusting Islam as a constitution and philosophly and comparing to other systems , It would be great if our discusion is based on that .

[lavin]

therefore we have to prohibit Islam to be the base for making law for the society.

of course we can compare each part of Kurdistan and as you know there are some differences. honor killing is not appreciated in rojhelat. I am not claiming that it is not possible, I am telling that it is not appreciated like here in Rojbash Net.

[balochistan_kurd]

Lavin , as u r saying that Rojhelati kurds r against of Honour killing but Rojhelati Kurdistan didnt means the whole Kurdistan.and it is also not proved that Rojhelati kurd s are living according to kurdish Tradition s , their life style is changed , their life style becoming same as Persians.may be that s why they Protested against honour killing. .islam didnt order s us to treat womens like slaves, islam didnt allow s us to use womens for Trade or for sex slaves. may be some arabs treated womens worstly, but ture islam didnt mean s the islam of arabs.Lavin, iam not destroying kurdish tradition s , Honour killing is a part of our old traditions. thousand s of years before we used to live according to strong tribal Rules, still which r honourable for us .still we r living here according to tribal rules ,and we r proud of our justice full Rules. Rights for womens didnt mean to allow womens to have illegal relation s with any male,freedom and democracy didnt mean to allow womens to wear dress like Europeans.as i think only a Pimp minded person should feel proud in this kind of situation .

[lavin]

ok, Kill them and treat them as your slaves, but we are trying to treat them with no differences. and hopefully one day they have the same right as men.

[lavin]

i cannot understand why freedom for men in your mind is ok (like having more than one wife, have girlfriend, let your son to have sex before marriage) but when women ask for any human rights you accused them (before listening what is the request) for asking sex or crime. (sex is not crime in Kurdish culture and this is made after Islam by the invaders and you are defending these cruelty)

[balochistan_kurd]

lavin why r u not understanding my words, i told u islam orders us to treat womens as human beings, they have their own Rights.even islam allows females to selct Husband for their own choice, but it dosent mean that female s start illegal relations etc.iam not defending male , islam is equal for male as well as for females.they have got equal rights according to islamic Rules.islam didnt allows both male and female for illegal Relation s .
Lavin how can u say that illegal sex is not a crime in kurdish culture?? Every civilized culture did not allows for such kind of illegal Acts.

[lavin]

Islam is not equal for men and women, for example, men can have 4 wives, women cannot. men after divorce can have the baby and women cannot. in heritage rules, women portion is less than 0.5 of the men portion and if you kill a woman as a penalty you have to pay less in comparison of killing a man , a man can marry a 9 years old baby with the permission of her father ,...and a lot of other rule.....

but Arabs (those who killed our ancestors) are so happy to have defenders.

in civilized country, if sex between a man a woman before marriage is acceptable when there is no force.

[balochistan_kurd]

let me tell you.... Sorry for these words, but i ask u a question, will u be satisfy to have 4 fathers?? i mean to say that u r saying that womens should have more husbands then 1.this is not a point. but islam allows Divorced women to marry . According to the rules of Govt , the govt ask from child to choose any one from your parent s whom u want to live. as u say that a over age man can marry a 9 year old in islam.R u sure that this rule of marring a child is a islamic Rule? is it written in any islam Book to marry a child? these r just social problems which were happening before islam also.islam is not a Property of Arabs .ALLAH sent thousands of Prophets to Arab land because Arabs were the most worst people of that time.even ALLAH sent the last Prophet HAZRAT MOHAMMAD (p b u h ) to arabs, and Allah also sent the holy Quran in Arabi . it is mentioned in Holy Quran that arab s were the worst people thats why Quran is sent in arabi .to make them understand easly.
kurds have got more than 8 thousand years old culture. we have Respect in our culture for womens. but if any girl or women react against our Culture, against our Traditions then we should treat them according to our Kurdish/tribal Rules.

[talsor]

let me tell you.... u say that a over age man can marry a 9 year old in islam.R u sure that this rule of marring a child is a islamic Rule? is it written in any islam Book to marry a child? these r just social problems which were happening before islam also.islam is not a Property of Arabs .

Haval balochistan_kurd

Marrying a girl at the age of 9 is an islamic rule , correct me if I'm wrong but Mohamad himself married aisha at the age of 9 , it is part of the islamic history . He says in his Hadith " Zawejohon fi thaman , wa alyna alama" which means (marry them at 8 and we will grantee it is safe )

As we all know Mohamad did not have any Sons from all his marriages , whenever he would have a Boy , it die in a very early age , so all he had was daughters , and it is very very very Important in the Arab culture to have sons not daughters . It is so important that Fathers are named after thier children " Abo ali" means father of Ali
Abo al Kasim which means father of alkasim ..etc .

The reason he could not have a son was because of a defected Y chromosom .

Femel carries XX chromosoms
Male carries XY chromosoms

XX will be femel
XY will be male

when Y is defected , there is no way to have male children , but they did not know that at the time offcourse , so he kept marrying women in the hope of having a son and the desperation reached the point of marrying Aishia who was 9 at the time in the hope of having a son .

Please do not get offended , I'm just talking from a historical point of view .

Regards

[lavin]

Baluchestani, you are talking like Mullas just to defend Islam by changing the subject of what yo saied beofre my answer.

you claimed that Islam is treating men and women equally and I showed you that this is not true and just your imagination. I was not asking to have more than one father (or even mother, it is very rare in my culture to have more than one wife).

what you claimed was equality and what I showed you was in the response of your claim. I did not ask you to get permission for having more than one husband. I am not stupid nor low intelligent that you can change the subject and twist it and then you can ran from the main point.

main point was " Islam is treating women equally" and I respond you that this is a lie, Islam is not treating women equally.

[matin123]

i'm not a muslim so i'm not an expert on the role of women in islam, but whatever it is, it's a big step forward for the barbaric arabs of the time. when it comes to respect for women, i believe that a woman is more respected in kurdish culture than islam.

[balochistan_kurd]

first of all you must write the correct spelling on BALOCH. it is Baloch not Baluch.
lavin if u r against of islam then u should change your religioun.instead of making islam unpopular, iam not talking by myself i have full information about the religioun of peace ( islam).how can u say that islam is treating womens like animals, give me example? it is not compulosery for a man in islam to marry 4 females. it is allowed in some cases, like the death of 1st wife, if a man can justice between two wifes then islam allows him to marry more than 1 wife .other wise it is not allowed. islam is a 100% true religioun. 1st of all islam says Haquuokh alabied ( rights of Humanity), after this islam talk s abt Haquuoq ALLAH ( rights of ALLAH on human being).
our main topic was Honour killing not islam.so its better to talk abt honour killing, i totally support the Honour killing.

[lavin]

I apologize if I wrote your name wrong,it was not purposefully.

I gave you the examples that Islam is not treating men and women equally but I think you do not want to see them and I am not going to repeat it, you can review what I wrote.

and about honor killing, it is not Kurdish tradition, it was imported from Islam and it is very shameful action for us.

[talsor]

I apologize if I wrote your name wrong,it was not purposefully.

I gave you the examples that Islam is not treating men and women equally but I think you do not want to see them and I am not going to repeat it, you can review what I wrote.
and about honor killing, it is not Kurdish tradition, it was imported from Islam and it is very shameful action for us.

I will have to agree , because Quran and Hadith is the constituiton and the law for Islam and any other laws or tradition prior were forbidin by the arrive of Islam .thus Honor killing is an Arab islamic culture .