'Ukip supporters I met weren't racist…'

[Piling]

… they felt disenfranchised and frustrated

Until the main political parties respect the economic concerns of Ukip supporters the party will continue to do well with voters

Having spent months campaigning in the local elections for a council seat in the London's Southwark borough, I've spoken to many people who, despite my efforts, voted for Ukip. Ukip may have prevented my Conservative colleagues and me from winning seats last week – the margin of my defeat was narrower than the Ukip vote – but watching the count there were a surprising number of votes split between Ukip and the Liberal Democrats, and Ukip and Labour.

I am sure the voters I spoke to were not racist or frustrated by political correctness. They were not intolerant of all migrants, or desperate to criticise Romanians. Call it electionitis, call it a desire to use ammunition against an opposing political party – but I rushed to call out every example of bigotry that hit the national headlines. I couldn't have been more eager to criticise Nigel Farage for racism, and in doing so I made a fundamental mistake.

Until we understand Ukip voters and until we respect the motivations behind their choices, they will continue to rise in the polls. People do not vote for Ukip in such numbers because they are racist. Lord Ashcroft's polling shows that 24% of the people who voted Ukip on 22 May would prefer Ed Miliband to David Cameron as prime minister. Eight per cent had previously voted Liberal Democrat.

This isn't a party fuelled by racism but one that taps into the feeling of disenfranchisement among the less well-off. Ukip's tone resonates with those who might have been traditional working-class Labour and Conservative voters. Support for Ukip on the doorstep was voiced as support for a party that understood the concerns of ordinary voters, and the three main parties need to learn this lesson.

Southwark used to be a Lib Dem stronghold. I was astonished by the numbers of doors opened by people who previously voted Lib Dem but were going to vote Ukip. When asked to unpack that, the ones who generously gave their time explained that their concern was about immigration. They said that the area had been filled with migrants pushing up the cost of housing and preventing their children from finding homes. Southwark's popularity as a place to live, because it's near the City, has brought in large numbers of young professionals – many of whom I spoke to, who had come to work in London from abroad. More established working-class residents don't feel squeezed out culturally by immigration but economically.

There is an argument raging about why London doesn't reflect the national polls when it comes to Ukip support. The party didn't do anywhere near as well in the capital as it did elsewhere. Some claim it shows how ethnically diverse London is, and how tolerant. I don't believe that London is any more tolerant than any other parts of Britain. What it has is wealth, and a property market that has pushed out working-class residents. Thus in London Ukip has both smaller networks of activists and fewer people likely to vote for it.

When the main parties are able to unveil policies that assure the least well-off that they are on their side, when the housing market doesn't make people scared that their children will never own homes, then support for Ukip will collapse. When Ukip supporters cite immigration, it's not because they don't like the faces of people moving in down the road, it's because they fear the road is now unaffordable for their children to live on.

I made the mistake of calling Ukip racist on the basis of the party's incompetence at selecting good candidates, but demonising its supporters means alienating them further from the political establishment. We would do better to get behind them and bring them back to parties that don't just reflect their concerns, but have the competence to do something about them.


Rupert Myers
theguardian.com, Monday 26 May 2014 13.15 BST

UKIP supporters seem to be the same of our FN voters ?

[Anthea]

… they felt disenfranchised and frustrated

Until the main political parties respect the economic concerns of Ukip supporters the party will continue to do well with voters

Having spent months campaigning in the local elections for a council seat in the London's Southwark borough, I've spoken to many people who, despite my efforts, voted for Ukip. Ukip may have prevented my Conservative colleagues and me from winning seats last week – the margin of my defeat was narrower than the Ukip vote – but watching the count there were a surprising number of votes split between Ukip and the Liberal Democrats, and Ukip and Labour.

I am sure the voters I spoke to were not racist or frustrated by political correctness. They were not intolerant of all migrants, or desperate to criticise Romanians. Call it electionitis, call it a desire to use ammunition against an opposing political party – but I rushed to call out every example of bigotry that hit the national headlines. I couldn't have been more eager to criticise Nigel Farage for racism, and in doing so I made a fundamental mistake.

Until we understand Ukip voters and until we respect the motivations behind their choices, they will continue to rise in the polls. People do not vote for Ukip in such numbers because they are racist. Lord Ashcroft's polling shows that 24% of the people who voted Ukip on 22 May would prefer Ed Miliband to David Cameron as prime minister. Eight per cent had previously voted Liberal Democrat.

This isn't a party fuelled by racism but one that taps into the feeling of disenfranchisement among the less well-off. Ukip's tone resonates with those who might have been traditional working-class Labour and Conservative voters. Support for Ukip on the doorstep was voiced as support for a party that understood the concerns of ordinary voters, and the three main parties need to learn this lesson.

Southwark used to be a Lib Dem stronghold. I was astonished by the numbers of doors opened by people who previously voted Lib Dem but were going to vote Ukip. When asked to unpack that, the ones who generously gave their time explained that their concern was about immigration. They said that the area had been filled with migrants pushing up the cost of housing and preventing their children from finding homes. Southwark's popularity as a place to live, because it's near the City, has brought in large numbers of young professionals – many of whom I spoke to, who had come to work in London from abroad. More established working-class residents don't feel squeezed out culturally by immigration but economically.

There is an argument raging about why London doesn't reflect the national polls when it comes to Ukip support. The party didn't do anywhere near as well in the capital as it did elsewhere. Some claim it shows how ethnically diverse London is, and how tolerant. I don't believe that London is any more tolerant than any other parts of Britain. What it has is wealth, and a property market that has pushed out working-class residents. Thus in London Ukip has both smaller networks of activists and fewer people likely to vote for it.

When the main parties are able to unveil policies that assure the least well-off that they are on their side, when the housing market doesn't make people scared that their children will never own homes, then support for Ukip will collapse. When Ukip supporters cite immigration, it's not because they don't like the faces of people moving in down the road, it's because they fear the road is now unaffordable for their children to live on.

I made the mistake of calling Ukip racist on the basis of the party's incompetence at selecting good candidates, but demonising its supporters means alienating them further from the political establishment. We would do better to get behind them and bring them back to parties that don't just reflect their concerns, but have the competence to do something about them.


Rupert Myers
theguardian.com, Monday 26 May 2014 13.15 BST

UKIP supporters seem to be the same of our FN voters ?

Very well written and very true

I think UKIP will do extremely well in the elections next year because they actually care about the want and needs of the voters - things that most other political parties have ignored for far too long

Basic marketing: listen to the wants and needs of the people and provide for those same wants and needs - ask them what they want = give them what they want - shame none of the other political parties bothered to do that

[Piling]

I heard that UKIP do not want to join with FN in UE group for they call it 'racist' and 'fascist' so that's ok

[kardox]

what about Danish People's Party, they got nearly one third of the all votes in Denmark. What do you guys think about them?

[Anthea]

what about Danish People's Party, they got nearly one third of the all votes in Denmark. What do you guys think about them?

I have heard about them - they are extremely right wing - perhaps akin to the British National Party in UK

There is a strong backlash against the large number of refugees and illegal immigrants in the country - I cannot remember the figures but I believe there is a far greater number of illegal immigrants than many other countries

If I remember rightly - Denmark has made the mistake of changing too many laws and adopting new laws to adjust to the new population rather than expecting newcomers to comply with Danish laws

I know they have had a lot of problems and violence in the country during the past few years - I have not kept up to date on events there

[Anthea]

Perhaps we should look at what is taking place around Europe

BBC News Inside Europe Blog

Hungary's EU election: Right and far-right sweep vote


Viktor Orban is celebrating yet again

The governing right-wing Fidesz party is celebrating another massive victory in Hungary, with nearly 52% of the vote and 12 seats in the European Parliament.

The far-right Jobbik also had cause to celebrate.

"I have important news for you: today Jobbik is the second largest party in Hungary," Gabor Vona, the Jobbik leader told cheering supporters. "The low turnout shows that Hungarians do not believe in the current European Union.

"We all want a common Europe, but a different one to what we have at the moment," he added.

Across the city, a hoarse Prime Minister Viktor Orban told supporters: "We won and we won hugely." Fidesz scored the best result of all members of the centre-right European Peoples Party, and therefore contributed most, relatively speaking, to the EPP victory, he said.

The biggest losers of the election - and the main surprise in Hungary - was the rout of the Socialists. With just below 11%, they barely beat the Democratic Coalition, a splinter group set up by former Socialist Prime Minister Ferenc Gyurcsany, with close to 10%. Each party will have two MEPs.

The leadership of the Socialist Party offered its resignation - to be decided by the party next Saturday. Hungary's Green party, the LMP, just scraped over the 5% threshold and will have one MEP. Only 2.2 million of Hungary's eight million electorate cast their votes.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-eu-27571116

[Anthea]

what about Danish People's Party, they got nearly one third of the all votes in Denmark. What do you guys think about them?

Thank you kardox - you got me thinking about Germany:

German party accused of neo-Nazi traits set for EU parliament



(Reuters) - Almost 70 years after Nazi Germany crumbled, a radical right-wing party that critics say shows an affinity for Hitler's National Socialist movement looks set to enter the European Parliament for the first time due to a change in electoral law.

The National Democratic Party (NPD), described by German intelligence as "racist, anti-Semitic and revisionist", has put stopping mass immigration at the core of its election program for this week's vote.

Abolition of a German law allowing only parties with three percent of the vote to claim seats will almost certainly open the door to the NPD, which has been campaigning under slogans including "Money for granny instead of Sinti and Roma" and "the boat is full".

Roma and Sinti were targeted by the Nazis and many died in concentration camps. The NPD says immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria are coming to Germany to use its social services.

"We say Europe is the continent of white people and it should remain that way," Udo Voigt, the lead candidate for the NPD, told Reuters in a rare interview.

"We want to make sure that even in 50 years' time an Italian, a Frenchman, an Englishman, an Irishman and a German are still recognizable as European and cannot be mistaken for Ghanaians or Chinese," the 62-year-old said in an office adorned with the German and party flags at NPD headquarters in Berlin.

Voigt denies such views amount to racism and says his party rests on a democratic foundation.

Last year Germany's 16 states launched a bid to ban the NPD for its "degrading racism" and "recognizable affinity" for the Nazis. A similar attempt by the federal government failed in 2003.

The NPD is not represented in the federal parliament but has cleared the national five percent threshold to win seats in two state assemblies and Voigt says it has about 400 representatives in local councils. But its radical views mean it will likely struggle to find partners at a European level.

FATHERLAND

Political scientist Hajo Funke, an expert on the far right, said the NPD copied many ideas from National Socialism; but while the Nazis said in their early years they wanted to expel the Jews from Germany, the NPD sought expulsion of Turks, Muslims and immigrants in general.

"In their program of sending back the around 12 million people in Germany that they don't see as racially pure, they are more radical than Hitler's NSDAP party was at its founding congress in 1920," he said.

The NPD, founded in 1964, is campaigning to get rid of Europe's passport-free Schengen zone, stop the free movement of workers, abolish the euro and transform the EU into a "united Europe of Fatherlands" of independent sovereign states.

"I'll throw a spanner in the works by foiling plans to create a multicultural society in Europe and thwarting billions of spending on bank bailouts rather than on unemployed people in Europe and we want to talk about renegotiating the Schengen agreement," Voigt said.

A Catholic who enjoys sailing and skiing, Voigt trained as an aerospace metalworker before joining the army. Prevented from becoming an officer by his NPD membership, he studied politics and became a teacher at an NPD training center in Italy.

He had joined the party in 1968 after attending an NPD event where, for the first time, he said, he heard a politician express pride in German history. When leftists tried to cut cables and knock over the loudspeakers, a fight broke out.

Martin Schulz, the center-left's candidate, has called on Europeans to use their votes to prevent the NPD getting in.

"Seventy-five years after the start of World War Two, we Germans are running the risk that proponents of Adolf Hitler's ideology could win a seat in the next European Parliament."

Manfred Guellner, head of the Forsa polling institute, said around 11 percent of the German electorate could be potential voters for the extreme right, though he believed not much more than 1 percent would actually vote for the NPD.

"As there's no longer any threshold and you can now can get into the European Parliament with around 1 percent of valid votes, it's extremely likely the NPD will manage to enter the European Parliament," he said.

The traditionally low turnout for European elections - in 2009 it was 43 percent - favors radical parties like the NPD whose supporters are more likely to go and cast their ballots.

SHUNNED BY RIGHT

Voigt said the NPD could win between 1 and 3 seats.

But the party is so far to the right it may have trouble finding partners in the assembly, especially because of moves to have it banned and sensitivities about Germany's Nazi past.

"Even Jobbik (in Hungary) has avoided working with the NPD where at all possible because it always looks bad for parties if they work with the NPD," Lazaros Miliopoulos, a political scientist at the University of Bonn, said.

Voigt, who has been given a prison sentence subject to appeal for incitement, says the NPD would like to work with like-minded nationalists in Jobbik, Greece's Golden Dawn, the British National Party and Bulgaria's Attack.

But he acknowledged that the Dutch right-wing populist Party for Freedom (PVV), France's National Front, the UK Independence Party (UKIP) and Alternative for Germany (AfD), which may steal some NPD votes, were unlikely to work with the more radical NPD.

Analysts say a breakthrough into the Euroepan parliament would conceal the party's weaknesses, such as its financial problems, infighting and the likelihood that it could fall out of the state assembly in Saxony after a September vote.

"Their likely entry into the European Parliament belies the fact the NPD is actually very weak at the moment," Miliopoulos said. "Though they will get in, they haven't gained in support and are actually losing voters if anything."

(Reporting by Michelle Martin; Editing by Stephen Brown and Ralph Boulton)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/ ... DY20140521

[Anthea]

One of things that is fuelling the problems in the UK are those immigrants who claim benefits while working:

A Kurdish carpenter claiming benefits will work for £200 a week (well below minimum legal wage)

An English carpenter will charge at least £200 - probably more - a day

Also there are others who work very cheaply:

A good English cleaning company will charge £25 an hour - an independent English cleaner will charge £15-20 per hour - an Eastern European cleaner will charge £7-10 an hour

An English plumber will charge £100 an hour - non-English plumber will charge £10-20 per hour

The UK economy is in trouble so people are cutting back on expenses - at the same time as complaining about the numbers of foreign workers coming into the UK - many people are using the service of those same workers

A friend of mine is paying £200 a week for carpentry work - he knows the worker is claiming government money

I remind my friend the government has NO money of it's own - it is our money - we the tax payer are supporting the rebuilding of my friend's new home

Worse than that - the carpenter is dumping his rubbish by the roadside where my taxes pay to have it removed

As a teacher and business advisor I do not worry about competition form cheap foreign labour - but a lot of workers in UK have good reason to worry

[Piling]

The them of the 'migrant cheating for benefits' is so often used by political circles in the aim to make forget the huge loss of tax evasion, corruption, illegal financial transactions from the same politicians, or big companies.

There is a joke : a banker, a Rom and an ordinary English-French-Danish etc. citizen are sitting at a table and drink tea. There is a plate of 12 biscuits. The banker took 11 and says to the European citizen : 'Be careful ! That Rom will steal your biscuit !'

[Anthea]

The them of the 'migrant cheating for benefits' is so often used by political circles in the aim to make forget the huge loss of tax evasion, corruption, illegal financial transactions from the same politicians, or big companies.

There is a joke : a banker, a Rom and an ordinary English-French-Danish etc. citizen are sitting at a table and drink tea. There is a plate of 12 biscuits. The banker took 11 and says to the European citizen : 'Be careful ! That Rom will steal your biscuit !'

In the case of the Kurds it was not actually their idea to cheat anyone - they knew nothing about stealing when they came here

They came here without any English and they turned to TURKS for help (always a mistake trusting Turks)

These same Turks filled in forms and encouraged Kurds to work illegally by not telling then it was against the law - these Turks also charged the Kurds for translation services that were actually free

Some Turks took up to £1,000 from Kurds for bribing councils to house them - there were no bribes but you would be amazed how many Kurds actually believed that

At first the Kurds who were working illegally did not even know it was against the law

In more recent years many Kurdish businesses only survive by using low paid staff

Some Kurds are still paying off the people smugglers who bought them here - or rather dumped them in France

[Piling]

In fact, the real winner group is abstention, as always.

Der schlimmste Analphabet ist der politische Analphabet. Er hört nicht, spricht nicht, und nimmt nicht an den politischen Ereignissen teil. Er weiß nicht, daß die Kosten des Lebens, der Preis der Bohnen, des Fisches, des Mehls, der Miete, des Schuhes und des Medikamentes von politischen Entscheidungen abhängen. Der politische Analphabet ist so dumm, daß er stolz ist und sich in die Brust wirft um zu sagen, daß er Politik haßt. Der Schwachsinnige weiß es nicht, daß aus seiner politischen Ignoranz die Prostitution, der verlassene Minderjährige, der Räuber und der schlimmste von allen Verbrechern – der politische Betrüger, korrupt, Lakai der nationalen und multinationalen Unternehmen resultieren.”

“The worst illiterate is the political illiterate, he doesn’t hear, doesn’t speak, nor participates in the political events. He doesn’t know the cost of life, the price of the bean, of the fish, of the flour, of the rent, of the shoes and of the medicine, all depends on political decisions. The political illiterate is so stupid that he is proud and swells his chest saying that he hates politics. The imbecile doesn’t know that, from his political ignorance is born the prostitute, the abandoned child, and the worst thieves of all, the bad politician, corrupted and flunky of the national and multinational companies.”


― Bertolt Brecht