Kashmir - History & Culture

[Diri]

Raman can, could you please tell us some more about Kashmir and it's history... It's languages and it's culture? Do you have any unique features (culturally, historically etc.)...?

From what I know, the Kashmiri king at the time had decided to be part of India - but since the population was 80% Muslim, they were less keen than the King and would rather join Pakistan - although I guess many today want Azad Kashmir - independence...?

[Piling]

The only book I red about Kashmir is Salman Rushdie's novel, Shalimar the Clown, which described Kashmir as an ancient Paradise, unfortunately devastated by war. Don't know if the book is relevant about this country, but it was wonderfully sad and beautiful.

[raman82]

Sorry for the late response , Kashmir is a very long topic but ....to undertand Kashmir you have to understand Dardic peoples , here is a brief intro its some what accurate but I will fill in the details .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dard_people

[raman82]

OK ....Azad Kashmir is a bunch of horse shit ,and most the people there are Mirpuris who dont even speak Kashmiri and dont look it , they were brought from the Junub (south) . Its just propaganda cooked up by Pakistans government to spur problems in "kafir" India because truth is India is booming and Pakistan is still stuck in the 15th century. India has 130 million muslims so the idea of a muslim state is baseless . All the terrorists within Kashmir are not even Kashmiri most are Afghans or Chechens or foreigners . Another thing in Azad Kashmir , Kashmiri has been replaced by Urdu and Pashto , Afghans have flooded the region outnumbering the little Kashmiris that stay there . In Kashmir , India , Kashmiri culture is preserved and the language is spoken by 99% of the population. The insurgency started with Benazir Bhutto inciting Mujahadeen to go create problems in Kashmir which included killing thousands of Kashmiri Pandits in the late 80s and early 90s but that has stopped , since 95% of the Kashmiri Pandit population migrated out of the Kashmir valley. Well , karma came to bite Pakistan and Benazir in the ass , because the same Mujahedeen they nurtured to reak havoc in Kashmir are trying to destroy Benazir and what pathetic civil order left in Pakistan. Well its all down hill for Pakistan from here , because the population has become radicalized and the north is controlled by Taliban. Another thing they are many factions who hate each other in Pakistan , its going to be Iraq part deux , sunni vs shia , baluchi vs sindhi , Taliban vs moderates , also America will come full force because they dont want crazy mullahs with nuclear weapons . You reap what you sow in the end. Btw in Kashmir , now things are fine , with Pakistan on the verge of collapse , they have no time to create problems in other places . Pakistan did the same thing in Afghanistan btw . Many Afghans hate Pakistan for that .

[Diri]

Thanks...

This little history lesson has put a lot of bricks into place for me - So many more things make sense (which are not even directly Kashmir linked)...

So, what about the division of Kashmir?

What do the Kashmiris on either side wish and aspire for?

[raman82]

The common Kashmiri is a shepard who lives in the mountains with his sheep and goats , meaning they are very simple people . So its very easy to influence them anyway you like , in general there is a saying people who live in mountains tend to be gullible .

[Piling]

in general there is a saying people who live in mountains tend to be gullible .

Kurds are a good example in modern history...

[raman82]

well people in mountains are close to nature so they arent aware of the complexities of the human psyche and how crooked they can be .

[Diri]

That's a nice way of putting it...


But please tell us - when the king of Kashmir decided he wanted Kashmir to be part of India - how did people react? I mean 80% was Muslim (don't know the figure now) and Pakistan was created as a "Muslim country" - where all the Muslim Indians could move to...

So how did these Muslims react to their king deciding to remain part of India?

[raman82]

HOw are they going to react most kashmiris are simple shepards they will listen to what the mullah says , ad who he takes orders , from Kashmiri muslims suffer from a bad case of group think , meaning they dont question anything , just like the sheep they herd.
Also mainly it was security reasons , too, India doesnt want pakistan having rights to tributaries rivers of Punjab (5 rivers) so they had to take it. Pakistanis have no other job but to mess up things in other countries they did it in Afghanistan , and my state and now they are paying for it. Another thing we are true kashmiris in that we are propagating a culture which is 4000-5000 years old . If Kashmiri was in Pakistans hands it would be over run with Pashtuns, Pashtuns typically are very very backward and brutal .

[Diri]

HOw are they going to react most kashmiris are simple shepards they will listen to what the mullah says , ad who he takes orders , from Kashmiri muslims suffer from a bad case of group think , meaning they dont question anything , just like the sheep they herd.
Also mainly it was security reasons , too, India doesnt want pakistan having rights to tributaries rivers of Punjab (5 rivers) so they had to take it. Pakistanis have no other job but to mess up things in other countries they did it in Afghanistan , and my state and now they are paying for it. Another thing we are true kashmiris in that we are propagating a culture which is 4000-5000 years old . If Kashmiri was in Pakistans hands it would be over run with Pashtuns, Pashtuns typically are very very backward and brutal .

That's very generalizing... Don't you think?

But I can understand that both India and Pakistan would want the land - because of it's resources... Just like with Kurdistan...

[raman82]

HOw are they going to react most kashmiris are simple shepards they will listen to what the mullah says , ad who he takes orders , from Kashmiri muslims suffer from a bad case of group think , meaning they dont question anything , just like the sheep they herd.
Also mainly it was security reasons , too, India doesnt want pakistan having rights to tributaries rivers of Punjab (5 rivers) so they had to take it. Pakistanis have no other job but to mess up things in other countries they did it in Afghanistan , and my state and now they are paying for it. Another thing we are true kashmiris in that we are propagating a culture which is 4000-5000 years old . If Kashmiri was in Pakistans hands it would be over run with Pashtuns, Pashtuns typically are very very backward and brutal .

That's very generalizing... Don't you think?

But I can understand that both India and Pakistan would want the land - because of it's resources... Just like with Kurdistan...

Hey dont give me that eye roll....its meant to be general , Kashmiri is a complicated place , I can go on hours about this but you dont have an indepth understanding of this so , I just gave you the basics ...... In anycase kashmiri muslims are better in Secular india , in Pakistan, most kids instead of learning math and science are going to madrasas and schooled in hatred and blowing themselves up and trying to live out their lives like its 7th century Arabia .

[Diri]

HOw are they going to react most kashmiris are simple shepards they will listen to what the mullah says , ad who he takes orders , from Kashmiri muslims suffer from a bad case of group think , meaning they dont question anything , just like the sheep they herd.
Also mainly it was security reasons , too, India doesnt want pakistan having rights to tributaries rivers of Punjab (5 rivers) so they had to take it. Pakistanis have no other job but to mess up things in other countries they did it in Afghanistan , and my state and now they are paying for it. Another thing we are true kashmiris in that we are propagating a culture which is 4000-5000 years old . If Kashmiri was in Pakistans hands it would be over run with Pashtuns, Pashtuns typically are very very backward and brutal .

That's very generalizing... Don't you think?

But I can understand that both India and Pakistan would want the land - because of it's resources... Just like with Kurdistan...

Hey dont give me that eye roll....its meant to be general , Kashmiri is a complicated place , I can go on hours about this but you dont have an indepth understanding of this so , I just gave you the basics ...... In anycase kashmiri muslims are better in Secular india , in Pakistan, most kids instead of learning math and science are going to madrasas and schooled in hatred and blowing themselves up and trying to live out their lives like its 7th century Arabia .

Well here's a clue: I WANT THE INDEPTH... HENCE my reaction...

I didn't star this thread because I wanted to get a general stereotyped idea of how it is... I started it because of genuin interest in the situation - and because I wanted to know the reasons and history of Kashmir... I already know the basics dear - Wikipedia is an okey source... But I'd rather hear many versions of the same thing before I make up my mind about it - so that's why I wanted to see your oppinions and side of the story...

Winky winky...

[raman82]

ok..............i will discuss this in depth but get ready its like watching the Lords of the rings trilogy ALL at once.

[Diri]

ok..............i will discuss this in depth but get ready its like watching the Lords of the rings trilogy ALL at once.

I love Lord Of The Rings...